“Perhaps Occasionally Something Functions”: Nathan Silver Discusses Carol & Joy

      Exit Elena, Stinking Heaven, and Thirst Street didn't really prepare anyone for Nathan Silver's leap into the mainstream. The fact that last year's Between the Temples managed the difficult feat of retaining its artistic sensibilities while being a film your parents might enjoy doesn’t align with Jimmy Fallon pretending to know Silver's work, aside from his collaboration with Carol Kane, a unique screen presence loved by the public for decades. This collaboration reached a new pinnacle with Carol & Joy, a short film where Silver visits the shared apartment of Kane and her mother, Joy, as Joy recounts her stories from her 98 years.

      You might be better off making a four-hour film on this subject rather than one that's 39 minutes long, but Carol & Joy found immediate success: it premiered at Telluride, Natalie Portman took on executive producer duties, it had its hometown debut at the New York Film Festival, was acquired by Janus Films, and is now streaming on the Criterion Channel—all within about 90 days. I was pleased to hear Silver discuss the journey of this project.

      The Film Stage: The film creates an atmosphere as if the audience is stepping into the apartment, which I assume was your goal.

      Nathan Silver: Absolutely.

      The knock at the door gives the viewer their first glimpse of the space. One of the interesting aspects is that you had a genuine hit with Between the Temples. I'm not sure of its final numbers.

      [Laughs] Numbers don’t matter.

      Everyone seemed to be pleased with it—from Sundance to a successful theatrical release to the New York Film Critics Circle ceremony where Carol Kane received her award from John Turturro.

      Yes, they are friends; they’ve worked together and have known each other for a long time.

      Making a film is always a complex, dynamic process, and this short film appears to originate from a much simpler premise; it seems to have a more modest life to it. However, there's a distinct difference in the attention and distribution ecosystem between a feature film with such a remarkable cast and this short that runs just shy of 40 minutes—often seen as an unfavorable length, making one wonder what to do with it.

      Yeah. [Laughs]

      I’m curious about your expectations, if any, during its creation.

      Initially, we intended to create a short that would be about 10 minutes long. We understood we were constrained by the number of film rolls we had—you know, budgetary limits. Dweck came on board early and provided us with funding for what was basically a 10-minute film. So, we approached it with that intention, shooting the initial scene on a Saturday, returning Sunday for additional footage, and then going back a month later to capture Joy with her piano partner. After the first day of shooting, it became evident that we might be heading toward a longer film in the editing process because the depth of her storytelling couldn’t be confined to such a short format.

      When we handed the footage over to John [Magary] for editing, it was clear right away that we weren't looking at a 10-minute piece. If we were to follow just one storyline to its conclusion, we would miss the broader scope of her life and her relationship with Carol. We needed to create something that truly represented the experience of visiting that apartment. Maybe another editor could find a way to condense it, but with John's and my thought processes, we couldn't envision a cut shorter than half an hour. We made it as concise as possible while still capturing that visit.

      That’s how I felt when I first went there. While working on Between the Temples, I heard many stories about Joy from Carol; she frequently checked in on her mother during shooting and shared tales about Joy's life experiences with Jason and me. I only met Joy during the press tour for Between the Temples when I visited Carol to conduct an interview. Carol has another apartment a few floors above the one she shares with Joy, where we did the interview. Afterward, she took me down to see Joy playing piano with her partner—Jeremy, the singer in the movie. Joy shared stories, and it was immediately obvious that there was a film to be made. I remember texting Chris Wells right after I met Joy, excited to tell him everything, and he responded, “There’s no question we have to shoot this.”

      So, we tried to manage our expectations which is why we initially thought of a 10-minute piece; it’s easier to distribute something that length. Eventually, we ended up with a medium-length film, which complicated our chances with European festivals since many of them won’t program pieces over 15 or 20 minutes unless it’s a special section, making placements at places like Cannes, Venice, or Berlin more challenging. Fortunately, Telluride and the New York Film Festival accommodated us, which felt like a miracle. Janus Films then came on board, and I’m extremely thankful because I know it’s an awkward